Copies or Scibor's original works? (Copyright issues)

NAVARRO · Post by **NAVARRO** » 12 May 2006, o 14:26

I see, cmon heads are indeed very similar but i dont think their the same, but lets supose they are and that your right on scibor being a pirate...

let me put you a question.... why big creatures arent a good example that he can sculpt original stuff?

Artemis · Post by **Artemis** » 12 May 2006, o 14:30

NAVARRO wrote:I see, cmon heads are indeed very similar but i dont think their the same, but lets supose they are and that your right on scibor being a pirate...

let me put you a question.... why big creatures arent a good example that he can sculpt original stuff?

It's not that big creatures arent applicable, it's that the two ogre heads shown are 'stretched'. Considering that the head of one of the two new servants is just the same terminator head 'stretched' I can't tell if those ogre heads are also just copies that have been stretched out.

If one of the ogres had a normal closed mouth pose then I'd be able to recognise more easily whether it's an original sculpt or the same thing I think he's done to the terminator head.

This is why I asked for other examples.

It's also the case that it doesn't matter if he did sculpt them all himself. If a sculptor I personally know can sculpt well did the same thing with a GW figure he'd still be a pirate regardless of being able to sculpt things himself.

endrem · Post by **endrem** » 12 May 2006, o 14:44

You are still hanging on these heads, although I personally know people who did/do copy figures 1:1 and sell them. Noone knows about it, once painted you'll never realize the difference (except if the used material is different). That is piracy.

Another hint to think about afaik, if you have your band playing the music, you sing on your own, you are allowed to republish already existing, copyrighted songs. If you are in the mood, you can just pick a Madonna song, go to a studio with your buddies, record it, and sell it. Even if you are so damned good, that it sounds exactly like the original.
If you just copy the CD and try to sell that, you get kicked in the ass very quickly.

Post by **mahon** » 12 May 2006, o 14:47

But shouldn't you pay for using other's works for commercial uses?

Post by **Nameless** » 12 May 2006, o 14:50

Mahon, can you make a new thread and move all posts about copying there?

NAVARRO · Post by **NAVARRO** » 12 May 2006, o 14:51

ok i understand...

1- Scibor can sculpt freehand and his talented ( orc on boar fastest link i can remember and that isnt streetched)

2- if some talented sculptor copies and sells hes a pirate. agreed

3- similar heads on cmon cant established if he learned or not in such short time( how can you know learning curve of a sculptor

)

4- no examples of learning /evolutive sculpting ( couldnt cmon 2nd head be that? who knows?)

5- scibors work in my opinion cant be called pirate work since theres no facts to that only speculative conjectures.

i cant make conclusions on speculation alone sorry... so i only give importance to what i think i know

Artemis · Post by **Artemis** » 12 May 2006, o 14:52

endrem wrote:You are still hanging on these heads, although I personally know people who did/do copy figures 1:1 and sell them. Noone knows about it, once painted you'll never realize the difference (except if the used material is different). That is piracy.

Yes it is. And if you copy a part of a miniature in that way then just the same it is piracy.

endrem wrote:Another hint to think about afaik, if you have your band playing the music, you sing on your own, you are allowed to republish already existing, copyrighted songs. If you are in the mood, you can just pick a Madonna song, go to a studio with your buddies, record it, and sell it. Even if you are so damned good, that it sounds exactly like the original.

I'm not certain what to say to that apart from 'Of course you can't!'. That's illegal and will end up with the writer of the song owning your house.

endrem · Post by **endrem** » 12 May 2006, o 14:53

mahon wrote:But shouldn't you pay for using other's works for commercial uses?

As far as I know, if you redo everything (playing instruments, singing) on your own, then you don't have to pay for it.
As soon as you use an original sample which is longer than 8 seconds, you have to pay.

Artemis · Post by **Artemis** » 12 May 2006, o 14:57

NAVARRO wrote:ok i understand...

1- Scibor can sculpt freehand and his talented ( orc on boar fastest link i can remember and that isnt streetched)

That's a 100mm high figure. For that scale it's really not that good. However asuming it's not a copy of something it's not bad either.

NAVARRO wrote:2- if some talented sculptor copies and sells hes a pirate. agreed

Agreed.

NAVARRO wrote:3- similar heads on cmon cant established if he learned or not in such short time( how can you know learning curve of a sculptor )

I can't. However it's quite clearly the same head. There can be no argument about that.

NAVARRO wrote:4- no examples of learning /evolutive sculpting ( couldnt cmon 2nd head be that? who knows?)

It could be, however even if he did sculpt the second head by hand from scratch - which is ridiculously unlikely - then it's still a direct copy just as if you drew a perfect bank note or a perfect mona lisa. They are all still illegal copies.

NAVARRO wrote:5- scibors work in my opinion cant be called pirate work since theres no facts to that only speculative conjectures.

i cant make conclusions on speculation alone sorry... so i only give importance to what i think i know

Well your opinion is yours of course. However based on all available evidence, including his own admission, I think it's fairly obvious that he's a pirate, what's not known is to what extent it goes.

tidoco2222 · Post by **tidoco2222** » 12 May 2006, o 14:59

Well I have read this thread now from the last time I posted and I have to say that this is becoming a little silly. If Scibor has used/copied games workshops parts or infringed on their IP copyright then I am sure that GW will do something about it, check out what happened to Sophia's miniatures. That said I find the minis exciting and look forward to painting up the first two that I bought off e-bay recently. The simple answer is if you don't like what he is doing then just ignore it GW WILL if they feel that they are being taken for a ride do something about it, but as they haven't yet and Scibor has been trading his conversions for some time makes me believe that they are not bothered. Until then take this chance to get hold of some cool looking minis.
But if you don't like them then just leave it alone. I know I am going to get called down for this comment but I felt I just had to post my view.