Copies or Scibor's original works? (Copyright issues)

[mahon]

Good points guys and thanks for getting (at least a part of) this discussion into more polite and civilized tone.

@LadyEyes - thank you for pointing several things. We were always going to be a polite and friendly bunch. To respect opinions of other people, and to treat them in a kind and polite way. and then we don't need to agree all the time. we had several tense discussions here already, but this one is the second one that I wondered if I shouldn't lock. Well, I still believe in the freedom of speech...

The real problem is that we come from various cultures, and language is often a barrier - especially for noticing and reading emotions from written text... Sometimes one doesn't feel the emotional value of something that others say... Well, we have to live with it.

@Artemis - I've always respected you, and I was happy to have you here. I was a bit disappointed with your rare posts... but hey, we've all got lives out there. Still you are a person who is recognized in the world of miniatures, and I was always looking forward to your posts. At least something made you join the discussions.

@Trovarion, Artemis, Tidoco, and Hasslefressian - the discussion got really emotional, and when strong emotions fuel discussions, they aren't always polite. I thought we will be a polite and civilized forum, and something went wrong today. Well, I don't blame any particular persons, because it's hard enough for me and it simply isn't worth the effort. It would be OK if people exchanged arguments but not insults. Whoever started it - the others could end it. There's not one person to blame. Well, we're not kids (well, except for one 12-years-old ) so each of us should know when to
stop. I want to tell you all, that if I only notice one more sign of hostility and bad behavior, I will lock the thread (and there'll be no more fun ) without further explanations.


@all - Theft is bad. I don't claim it isn't, but before I accuse scibor (or anybody else - even the 'provocators' in this thread) i want to be sure of facts.
People accuse Scibor - ok, they may be better experts than me in sculpting. but i want to let Scibor defend himself.
I talked to him and Itold him that big photos with comparison of the GW head andf his heads would help, and showing that he can sculpt a head like this would be even better. so he agreed to sculpt a head and show WIP photos.

if he does - he will shut at least some mouths, and if he doesn't - well, it will be like confessing he can't do it....

@hasslefressian - I am happy you joined our discussions here, because like Tanya I was afraid something must be wrong about us that you're avoiding even pimping your stuff (and you know my opinion about it...). software problems you say? postnuke isn't a very light and fast enviroment, but hopefully upgrading to a new version of software will make things a bit better. I am always open to any suggestions and opinions.

@simon - I only hope things will be explained soon. until now we were only selling conversions, which I think are allowed. especially that it's obvious some parts are from GW, some are molded, and some are sculpted. the resin minis are new additions, and as soon as anybody informs me they infringe anybody's rights, they will be pulled down. thanks for your care, friend

@ALL AGAIN: so let's now give Scibor (and Demi_morgana) opportunity of proving they're not copying it. Scibor assured me he scuplted the original head(s) by himself and copies them. If it wasn't true, the whole cooperation will be lacking the solid base of trust. Without it it's hardly possible. Thus I believe they will be able to defend...

and please - we can exchange opinions and we can haver different opinons. but let's do it like civilized people, not a tyranid horde
I am not trying to find out who started it, but why we all can't calm down?

I hope I won't feel like closing this thread soon...

PS - Scibor is not a member of our team (as one of you assumed), but a member of this forum and community. And in my eyes, every member deserves respect at Chest of Colors. The same applies to all of you

[fatgoblin]

wow! haha. well, it isn't my first post here or at frothers. (but whenever post count jumps really fast, I always ignore it for a while and read it afterwards). Just a quick point out about Kev and Artemis. Its ok for me (and some of you) to maintain an emotional stability in such situations. But when 100% of your income comes from the industry and you have a family to support, its much harder and their response can be stronger.

re: pirating, its wrong. thats it.

re: Scibor, is he pirating? I have no idea and feel no need to make any guesses at this point

re: the software, for some reason this place does take a bit of time to load and it does a freeze for a few seconds every few minutes and has to reload again. A bit irritating, but I like the company here so I put up with it.

[NAVARRO]

and please - we can exchange opinions and we can haver different opinons. but let's do it like civilized people, not a tyranid horde

hey! whats wrong with nids? we are always polite you know

Its ok for me (and some of you) to maintain an emotional stability in such situations. But when 100% of your income comes from the industry and you have a family to support, its much harder and their response can be stronger.

exactly when you are a part directly involved on a issue ussualy your opinions and statements arent independent and are more emotional than racional.

Lets wait and see for scibor tut... even if it doesnt prove anything we all, independent hobyist will gain a new cool tut


today i woke up thinking on something, some of us sell paint works of GW minis or convos... does GW have legal force to stop us reselling their minis with our paint jobs or convos? its just a curiosity.

[Artemis]

@Artemis - I've always respected you, and I was happy to have you here. I was a bit disappointed with your rare posts... but hey, we've all got lives out there. Still you are a person who is recognized in the world of miniatures, and I was always looking forward to your posts. At least something made you join the discussions.

As I mentioned to LadyEyes, it wasn't a choice matter. Nobody had the pleasure of my company for quite a while. I'm back in the world now though so you may see me around more often.

@Trovarion, Artemis, Tidoco, and Hasslefressian - the discussion got really emotional, and when strong emotions fuel discussions, they aren't always polite. I thought we will be a polite and civilized forum, and something went wrong today. Well, I don't blame any particular persons, because it's hard enough for me and it simply isn't worth the effort. It would be OK if people exchanged arguments but not insults. Whoever started it - the others could end it. There's not one person to blame. Well, we're not kids (well, except for one 12-years-old ) so each of us should know when to
stop. I want to tell you all, that if I only notice one more sign of hostility and bad behavior, I will lock the thread (and there'll be no more fun ) without further explanations.

Considering you named more than just the newcomers I can certainly take that with more respect than before. For my own part I generally use the regulars way of posting as an indicator of what's tolerated on various forums. As I only really came back to this forum yesterday I used the replies given to me as that indicator. You say it's lower than that then you're the boss.

@simon - I only hope things will be explained soon. until now we were only selling conversions, which I think are allowed. especially that it's obvious some parts are from GW, some are molded, and some are sculpted. the resin minis are new additions, and as soon as anybody informs me they infringe anybody's rights, they will be pulled down. thanks for your care, friend

I hope, for your sake, that that's all that happens. It's perfectly possible that they will jump straight to the suing part and whoevers name is on that Ebay account will be 100% liable. It won't matter in the slightest that it's a group used account, it will matter who's name it's registered under as they are the only one legally selling the items.

PS - Scibor is not a member of our team (as one of you assumed), but a member of this forum and community. And in my eyes, every member deserves respect at Chest of Colors. The same applies to all of you

Hmm, I'll take your word for that but when a polish guy turns up selling miniatures through the CoC Ebay account, advertising on the CoC website and saying that they will be for sale through the CoC website and being spoken for by a CoC member there's very little difference there. It will be difficult not to judge the CoC on the actions of that person.

[Artemis]

Its ok for me (and some of you) to maintain an emotional stability in such situations. But when 100% of your income comes from the industry and you have a family to support, its much harder and their response can be stronger.

exactly when you are a part directly involved on a issue ussualy your opinions and statements arent independent and are more emotional than racional.

That's exactly the kind of bad faith reply that causes things to escalate. Nobody is saying that because we're in the business that our eyes don't work and we see piracy everywhere.

The implication was that because we;re in the business we take piracy more seriously. There's a big difference between the two.

[NAVARRO]

we have saying here in Portugal... use to those that do bad parties all alone...

"... hes releasing fireworks, aplauding it and in the end catching the leftovers...."

i didnt make any bad faith comment, not because of you, but because i respect CofC... stop with the fireworks please.

[Skrit]

Holy crap! I've been gone for a day and it seems I missed a lot of fun!

Reading through almost ten pages worth of people mostly repeating themselves and getting unfriendly with each other is just... disturbing!

Sorry to say, and that is directed to the newcomers/members that don't post often, but you really come here (just) to bitch and stir up a normally quite relaxed atmosphere?



I wanted to do a whole post but on second thought... It's just not even worth it!

What a topic! Does bring in new members though...

[Scibor]

At the start I want to say that I don't feel obligated to explain myself at all, because I am slandered person here.
But caring about my good name I decided to make this short tutorial to prove to some persons, that sculpting head in 28mm scale is easy (if of course the sculptor is concentrated on his work - not on discreditating other sculptors...)
I don't negate I used pressed Terminator heads to make some of my convertions, but I used them ONLY to make convertions - never for mass production purposes. I thought there was nothing wrong in that if You could find such techniques described in White Dwarf magazine (there was described pressing purity seals).
Games Workshop has never contacted with me in this case but to avoid rows, similiar to one we're already having on CofC, I decided to use heads sculpted by me only.
Last malicious falsehood that I use pressed GW heads in produced miniatures is just insolence!
I'm not going to debate about such lowlife charges with persons, who's culture and objectivity level doesn't bow to discussion of adult and intelligent persons.
As I mentioned, last night I made this short tutorial to show that sculpting is no problem for me.
I dedicate it to all complexed people, who cannot fully enjoy their hobby because of jeleousy and handicaps.
Oh, by the way: I'm not a lawyer but I suspect that unjustified slander is a crime...
Anyway I'm going back to my work and Messers Frustrated may still be pis*ed.
Click to see full-sized image

[Skrit]

Good response!:)

[NAVARRO]

now this is a fact. good work. i think apologies from many are in order.