Copies or Scibor's original works? (Copyright issues)

[LadyEyes]

I'm quite willing to play nice if people are civil, as most of all the forums I go to usually are (in their own way ) but I don't like being told to keep quiet and go away.

Kev, I hope I didn't quite come across as "keep quiet and go away." I honestly didn't mean it just like that.

It is, however, somewhat vexing that you and Artemis post here so little and when you have again it's because of this and followed the path it has.

I'm not trying to take any side in the whole "he did/didn't" argument.

I'm just trying to change the path it has taken because I don't like my pool pee'd in.

[Trovarion]

For the record, I didn't accuse anyone. I said "if he did", or similar.

Also for the record, I was insulted first when I was told to "shut up" and accused of being jealous.

I'm quite willing to play nice if people are civil, as most of all the forums I go to usually are (in their own way ) but I don't like being told to keep quiet and go away.

for the record...

I didnt call you anything and still I got smacked in the face.

and +++ tanya for the post.

[tidoco2222]

For the record I did tell you to shut up in the shoutbox because I got fed up of this thread and the overspill into the shoutbox, you responded, fair enough that is ok i've been called worse things by better people than you so I couldn't give a toss, for the record also I like Scibors stuff and that is that, call me what you like I am no longer interestedyour opinions are of no interest to me, there are other places to be that I can visit.

[Nameless]

I've just spent my time to read 100 posts.
You know what? I think I'll just go to read other topics. I see, that KU is showing his work on Drazhar, there's a nice base by Trovarion (pity he had not used my idea ), we shall definitely make some decisions concerning our project ...
Those are interesting subjects. And people are not drawn into fights, where can be no winner. See you there guys.

[Artemis]

Folks, I'd like to make a few observations, please.

Before May 12, 2006, Kev/Hasslefreesian had not posted in one year minus one day.

Before May 11, 2006, Artemis (apologies, I don't remember your real name at the moment) had not posted since October 2005.

Both of you have come here to post about Scribor's minis. Fine.

Ok.

But you come here for the first time in almost a year and several months, respectively, and take very belligerent, accusatory, and insulting tones with the members of this forum.

No, I took a firm stance against what I saw, and still see, as piracy. I did it here because here is where the figures are being advertised. Had they been advertised on TMP I would have done it there.

Any belligerence towards forum members grew out of the discussion and was 'not' present in my initial posts.

This forum is known widely for having a reputation as a friendlier, less belittling and insulting, and less troll and flame-ridden forum.

You have been warned by Mahon TWICE that you are pushing lines of politeness and what is seen as acceptable here by the administrator of the forum, not to mention the general consensus of the forum population.

'We' were warned? That's an interesting view of this thread. I don't notice you naming the people we were arguing with anywhere above this point so you seem to actually be saying that Hasslefriesian and I were the only ones being warned. Perhaps Mahon could confirm whether this is true or not?

And you kept taking an insulting, aggressive tone AND KEPT GOING.

I replied to people who were replying to me yes. That's what happens during a discussion. I'm not certain what the complaint is here.

Artemis, you have pushed very aggressive arguments with two core members of this forum either ignoring or being clueless that they are neither native English speakers. The back-and-forth posts of arguing with them easily demonstrates that you are all losing meaning back and forth because of the language barrier. There has ALWAYS been tolerance, understanding, and forbearance hear for posts made by folks that are not native English speakers because there is sometimes confusion.

The only times I was confused concerning the language barrier I specifically brought it up, at no other time was it a problem.

BEYOND ALL OF THIS you have ALL been trying to speak about laws and regulations across international boundaries. The last time I checked, not one person involved is an expert on international copyright or intellectual property laws. What is and is not illegal regarding this type of matter is likely very different depending on the countries and nationalities involved.

Unless Polish copyright law ais in the dark ages this seems to be a total straw man argument. I also point to the sentence about 'finsing retailers' which I assume will be outside Poland and the fact that they are importing miniatures into the UK which would come under our copyright laws.

So... is it a terrible surprise that the core members of this forum are responding in the ways they are? You've come, essentially, to their home where you have occasionally visited (and have previously been welcomed) and begun being very antagonistic, loud, and somewhat insulting.

Again, not to anyone currently posting in this forum I haven't. I made statements about the miniatures in the advertisement, I made no statements about forum members until they replied to me.

They tried to respond politely and logically at first, but you kept making it worse. You've been warned that you're breaking or coming very close to breaking house rules, but you visibly didn't appear to care.

'Again' I don't believe that is true and I don't believe an objective eye would see that. You're welcome to your own opinion of course.

No one has said you are no longer welcome here. On the contrary, I believe people would really welcome more active participation in the forum if it wasn't this sort of thing.

'This sort of thing'? You want more participation as long as we turn a blind eye to piracy when we think we see it? That's an interesting stance for a miniatures forum. Or is it just that the pirate is a member of the CoC group?
If, just for example, I had photos of a sculpt by Cyril which looked identical to a GW sculpt and brought it up are you seriously suggesting the same people here would be attacking me and asking for more proof? I somehow doubt that.

But what exactly are you trying to accomplish with this type of approach? I'm curious why you seem to not understand why the whole forum hasn't gladly, happily embraced your arguments and denounced Scribor to the whole miniatures world yet.

What makes you think we don't understand that? When you point out that someone else's friend is a thief you can expect a certain amount of hostility. That isn't ever going to make me hide under a rock when I see theft though.

You're welcome to come play in our pool, but please quit coming here just to pee in the water and not to play.

Certainly, I'll be happy to look around and 'also' comment on what I'm sure are many excellent miniatures and paintjobs. However if I'm banned from raising an objection to illegal activity when I see it then I'd rather not thanks.

[Artemis]

He should prove his own work is legitimate because otherwise people will continue to call him a thief. As a businessman if people were calling 'me' a thief I'd do whatever was necessary to 'prove' I wasn't.

"ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non ei qui negat"
this latin sentence is one of bases of modern law; in my crappy free translation it means sth like:
"proving is a duty of the one who prosecutes, not the one who negates" but as an estimated businessman (You claim You are) I'm sure You perfectly know that... don't You?

Yes, which is why I didn't say 'He has to prove it otherwise the 'law' will call him a thief'. But I'm sure you perfectly know that...don't You?

why doesnt Scibor himself get on here, and clearify what is real, and what is fiction.. shouldnt that stop this, since things are getting a tad ugly between certain members here....

that's really easy: because he's sick and tired of envious people constantly accusing him[/quote]

*laugh* Yes, everyone who is accusing Scibor of press moulding and piracy is 'jealous' Despite lots of them already being highly successful sculptors. What am I supposed to be jealous of exactly? I'm not even a sculptor.

[Artemis]

I'm quite willing to play nice if people are civil, as most of all the forums I go to usually are (in their own way ) but I don't like being told to keep quiet and go away.

Kev, I hope I didn't quite come across as "keep quiet and go away." I honestly didn't mean it just like that.

It is, however, somewhat vexing that you and Artemis post here so little and when you have again it's because of this and followed the path it has.

I'm not trying to take any side in the whole "he did/didn't" argument.

I'm just trying to change the path it has taken because I don't like my pool pee'd in.

If you truly aren't trying to take sides you are doing a pretty bad job of it.

My apologies if it looks like I have randomly started posting here for the sake of an argument. If you check around you'll find that I have only recently returned to the world of miniatures and forum so I haven't posted 'anywhere'.

I posted in the initial thread because it seemed to be the only place where the miniatures were advertised and there also seemed to be a link between them and CoC. I preferred to talk directly to their face instead of behind their back.

[LadyEyes]

Artemis, I'm not going to respond to each of your points because no matter what I say unless it is "You're right. We were all wrong." you're going to keep mis-interpreting what I say at least a little bit.

You're absolutely set and apparently refuse to care that I wasn't arguing about Scribor.

You seem determined to pick at everything anyone here says to you. It almost seems like you are just spoiling for a fight with someone, anyone, and you're going to keep trying to get one.

[Hasslefriesian]

Kev, I hope I didn't quite come across as "keep quiet and go away." I honestly didn't mean it just like that.

Nonononono... not you, it was Tidico2222 who told me to shut up and someone else who said that if it wasn't my problem I should wait until it was before speaking out.

It is, however, somewhat vexing that you and Artemis post here so little and when you have again it's because of this and followed the path it has.....

I'm not a frequent visitor here because the forum software does strange things to my monitor and the pages take an age to load for some reason. Come on, you must know me by reputation well enough by now to realise that I wouldn't miss a chance to pimp myself unless there was a reason, right?

for the record...

I didnt call you anything and still I got smacked in the face....

The "Idiot" thing only applies if you agree that piracy is O.K.

[Trovarion]

Artemis, you should be a lawyer.

for the record...

I didnt call you anything and still I got smacked in the face....

The "Idiot" thing only applies if you agree that piracy is O.K.

how many times did i say that stealing is the shit?? and how many times did i say that even if you didn't mean me with idiot you still insulted me AFTER that word...