Are people afraid to be rude?

illusionrip · Post by **illusionrip** » 19 Jun 2005, o 14:53

there is a excellent forum site in france https://www.creafigs.com (sorry but only in french), and they don't hesitate to be hurting when they talk about your miniatures...

i think it's great because it's help you to ask yourself some questions and try to do better miniatures

Mordred · Post by **Mordred** » 20 Jun 2005, o 02:20

like some people pointed out, there is a fine line between rudeness and harsh criticism. thomaz : I know what you mean about being attacked when commenting. ( it does happen more often on 'lesser' boards with loads of crappy painters who just need abit of extra criticism or help )

I'm glad many people think the same way, I find it very frustrating to receive alot of 'very nice' comments and very little constructive stuff... but this little post won't change that I guess

what mahon said is also very true. don't hesitate to comments on someone's work even if he is a better painter than you. I try and give some constructive comments when cheeba or demon color or mahon etc. post pics here, even if they have inspired me so many times in the past and are my favorite painters. It's gonna be a long time before I reach their level, but why can't I tell them I don't like something? it helps everybody improve.

endrem · Post by **endrem** » 20 Jun 2005, o 12:31

In the last weeks I was thinking about posting a similar topic, but I guess I was too afraid that I'm alone with my opinion

. Mordred took the words out of my mind. I normally read a lot of forums, rarely post though. Here I'm more active as I've been here from the beginning and seeing it starting soo good, with lots of great painters "switched me on". I'm glad you brought this topic up, Mordred.

Now go read some topics on Jenova's forums, the place I noticed this tendency first. Very few of the members really tell something useful. Everything is beautiful and wonderful, everyone loves everyone's painting... hardly makes sense to post anything as you only get positive feedback. A mini must be really bad to have some neutral comments like "make a better pic" or "add highlight".

Here is quite a bit different, I've seen much more constuctive posts than on other places. Hopefully the appearance of this topic will help to improve further. Mahon mentioned in his earlier post on commenting, that if someone posts something, he/she should mark if he/she is ready to accept harsh and critical comments or not. I think that's not a bad idea, when I posted my only wip pictures yet, I also mentioned that you should be rather honest and harsh than always positive

.

Let's be honest to each other

.

Post by **mahon** » 20 Jun 2005, o 12:47

if we don't post our suggestions we don't inspire as much as we can, and don't stimulate the progress and development of skills as much as we could.

as i told elsewhere - one constructive CMON comment was always worth more to me than just a good score. otherwise I wouldn't feel I need to learn to paint smoother, to thin paints more. to learn patience, to try to take better photos....

the one comment I used to get often was "thin your paints" - and in many cases it can't be stressed enough

Mordred · Post by **Mordred** » 21 Jun 2005, o 22:40

mahon you are absolutely, if we don't share our thoughts with eachother nobody can become a better painter. but some people might be afraid because it sounds cocky to criticise other ( better ) painters' miniatures. I can understand that in a way, maybe you should really put it in your post that you want harsh true criticism and no sucking up

endrem : I must say it was the bunch of 'super' and 'great' replies on the jenova forums that annoyed me abit. It's great that people like the miniature, but if nobody wants / dares to comment than it doesn't help me alot. this forum has a lot of good painters and imho started out with the right attitude from the first day. People are honest and comment directly without losing respect for the fellow painters. I can only say : keep it up folks !

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » 21 Jun 2005, o 22:49

I think too that there are some of us, that consider all of those here to be far better painters, and also, that at least in my case find that my level is such that I feel like I am only nit picking at a particular mini. I try to be as objective as possible, but my level is such that I can be easily overwhelmed by a technically well painted miniature, that I can not find any fault. While I do comment on somethings if they really do not look right to me, but also my comments tend to be biased by the level of the artist for whom I am making the comment on.

LadyEyes · Post by **LadyEyes** » 21 Jun 2005, o 23:32

Yes, I am afraid to say something sometimes because of several reasons:

-- I may be able to point out something that doesn't look right to me, but have no idea how to make it better. I have fairly decent eyes, but only mediocre (compared to the really good folks) skills.

-- In the sea of "looks incredible" comments its often scarey to be the first one (and often before the only one) to step out and say something different.

-- As stated somewhere else before, I am often thought of as some sort of "angry girl" or "man hater" if I dare to comment on a female mini negatively, and that's a whole lot of what gets posted.

It is also very irritating to me that I've asked for feedback or help with ideas a few times and gotten almost no response. I have no idea why this happened, maybe people just didn't have any ideas to share. *shrug* But it was vexing.

Post by **mahon** » 22 Jun 2005, o 00:10

LadyEyes wrote:-- I may be able to point out something that doesn't look right to me, but have no idea how to make it better. I have fairly decent eyes, but only mediocre (compared to the really good folks) skills.

yeap, but sometimes it's eanough to point WHAT could be improved, and maybe somebody else then says HOW to do it?

LadyEyes wrote:-- In the sea of "looks incredible" comments its often scarey to be the first one (and often before the only one) to step out and say something different.

that's something I used to experience...
when everybody admired some minis I didn't see anything special in them (even when I was a pretty inexperienced painter) but only after some time I managed to find enough guts to say my honest opinion..

don't worry - when you need somebody to support you - let me know

now I try to suggest at least what could be improved. even if I don't know how to improve it...

LadyEyes wrote:-- As stated somewhere else before, I am often thought of as some sort of "angry girl" or "man hater" if I dare to comment on a female mini negatively, and that's a whole lot of what gets posted.

hahaha
but you have the right to have your own opinion, and if you can't express it - what good is it all? what good is such a foruma at all?
as long as you're not rude - your opinion should be respected. and you can always send a PM to some other "haters" calling for support

I often feel rebellious and going aganst the main stream, so you can count on me

LadyEyes wrote:It is also very irritating to me that I've asked for feedback or help with ideas a few times and gotten almost no response. I have no idea why this happened, maybe people just didn't have any ideas to share. *shrug* But it was vexing.

that's strange - sometimes there is just too much to respond to, or I leave the forum before answering all the posts and when I return they are marked as read

in such cases you can always PM some of the persons you would like to hear, and ask them to respond to a given post

just my thoughts

stevannie · Post by **stevannie** » 22 Jun 2005, o 00:26

hi guys
while i agree with everything that has been said so far, i cant help but feel somewhat bemused about the answers. Firstly, if someone like me views a model, as i have only been painting for a few months, i cannot really comment on how to improve it, only what i would do with it, secondly, if you asked 8 different painters to comment on the painted model , they would all give slightly different answers too, so if you took all their advice, you would have to paint 8 models.
i think there is a broad line between giving a good all rounded balanced opinion, and being rude, unless of course, you want to include sarcasm.
all in all, we need to be helped by others.
steve

Lai · Post by **Lai** » 22 Jun 2005, o 09:34

i often say comments like "very nice" or "great job" because i think so...
i know the miniatures are painted with the maximum concentration and using all the tecniques known, so i don't see the need of being rude...if i can give some useful advice that still hasn't be given, i'll give it. Otherwise i'll keep my mouth shut. If already 8 guys before me tell the painter to do some blacklining, i don't see the need of being the ninth

So i'll try to find other "mistakes", but this is not alway easy to do