Copies or Scibor's original works? (Copyright issues)

[mahon]

@Artemis: I think Navarro nailed it. When you do much of something, your brain accomodates to a given kind of aesthetics, to style, and then your own style shifts to thet side.

Moreover - I believe they make their products to be compatible with GW stuff (so they have to adjust) and that's what the customers want. Well, after sculpting 2-3 heads, sculpting another one in the same style shouldn't be a problem. Be they molds or not, I don't know. I am not an expert. We'd have to ask our greenstuff experts...

GW-looking parts you say? well, I can see these patterns on them and AFAIK Scibor doesn't apply patterns on GW elements but makes his own patterned elements.... But then, I dunno.

@Demi_morgana - what forum is that? naughty, you sa?

[Artemis]

@Artemis: I think Navarro nailed it. When you do much of something, your brain accomodates to a given kind of aesthetics, to style, and then your own style shifts to thet side.

Moreover - I believe they make their products to be compatible with GW stuff (so they have to adjust) and that's what the customers want. Well, after sculpting 2-3 heads, sculpting another one in the same style shouldn't be a problem. Be they molds or not, I don't know. I am not an expert. We'd have to ask our greenstuff experts...

GW-looking parts you say? well, I can see these patterns on them and AFAIK Scibor doesn't apply patterns on GW elements but makes his own patterned elements.... But then, I dunno.

Then where are the other types of head? The sculpting on other parts of the miniature just doesn't match in skill to the heads and all the heads are clearly from the same design. If i had a press moulded GW head I could easily make some up in green stuff and open their mouths or stick a bit of hair on and I can barely sculpt at all.

Like I said, when someone outright admits to pirating a GW head then almost every other head they have ever done is a variation on that same head I don't know what else to call it. The dwarf, the servant and the guy on the orcs back all have the same head. They're all the same square, bald, design of the Terminator head that he admitted to pirating. So far I haven't seen one male head from Scibor that isn't that head. Once someone admits to piracy you start to look more cautiously at other parts that are 'inspired' by other company's parts.

Anyway, as I mentioned earlier I can't do anything about it either way apart from not have my own business involved with them.

[NAVARRO]

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As for me, I wouldn't stock them if somebody paid me. When a sculptor admits to piracy for his one-offs, then goes on to produce dozens of 'one-offs' with that same pirated part then comes out with a miniature line that all seem to have the same head then I don't really know what else to call it.

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you have your mind made up, you have seen his work and took your own conclusions and from there decided iits wrong to stock since hes a pirate....
beats me how can someone judge so fast specialy based on and i quote you... "miniature line that all seem to have the same head "
everyone has right to diferent opinion and i respect yours... what i think is not so respectfull is calling someones work piracy based on what it seems in your own preception and not on the real facts.

facts:
do you know scibor studio and have you seen him working? if not you should reserve judgemental comments to yourself. sorry for harshness

Heck why do everyone keeps picking on scibor?

Facts:
i havent seen scibor studio or him working, he can be many things i dont know, but one thing he is for sure is a talented sculptor because he has proven many times he can sculpt original stuff with is hands

[Artemis]

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As for me, I wouldn't stock them if somebody paid me. When a sculptor admits to piracy for his one-offs, then goes on to produce dozens of 'one-offs' with that same pirated part then comes out with a miniature line that all seem to have the same head then I don't really know what else to call it.

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you have your mind made up, you have seen his work and took your own conclusions and from there decided iits wrong to stock since hes a pirate....
beats me how can someone judge so fast specialy based on and i quote you... "miniature line that all seem to have the same head "
everyone has right to diferent opinion and i respect yours... what i think is not so respectfull is calling someones work piracy based on what it seems in your own preception and not on the real facts.

facts:
do you know scibor studio and have you seen him working? if not you should reserve judgemental comments to yourself. sorry for harshness

Heck why do everyone keeps picking on scibor?

Facts:
i havent seen scibor studio or him working, he can be many things i dont know, but one thing he is for sure is a talented sculptor because he has proven many times he can sculpt original stuff with is hands

You keep ignoring the part where I point out that he has admitted to pirating the heads. That's his own words not my perception.

I can only assume people keep 'picking on him' because they are also of the opinion that he is copying other people's work.

I've asked to see some original stuff so if you could link to it I'd be more than happy to take a look?

[mahon]

I just try to avoid judging in such a way: "he once stole a car, and now he has a car again. he must have stolen it!". I know it's an exaggerated example, but now you see why I try not to express such opinions too often.

He once admitted he used a copy, so why wouldn't he admit it again. And don't you think that basing your business on stolen/pirated works would be risky? I think so, and that's why I don't think others would do it...

[NAVARRO]

You keep ignoring the part where I point out that he has admitted to pirating the heads. That's his own words not my perception.

question if someone gets drunk in a party he is a alchoolic for life?
yes? if thats were your basing your judgement than again its a falacious one.

I can only assume people keep 'picking on him' because they are also of the opinion that he is copying other people's work.

another quick negative conclusion based on... what?
people are sure very interested on negativity.

I've asked to see some original stuff so if you could link to it I'd be more than happy to take a look?

look a bit up theres a quick example


dont get me wrong ok? im not claiming your conclusions are false im claiming untill someones actually seen the facts all conclusions are false since only a part of truth its a lie

so since no one actually knows better concentrate on positive part of life dont you agree?

[Artemis]

You keep ignoring the part where I point out that he has admitted to pirating the heads. That's his own words not my perception.

question if someone gets drunk in a party he is a alchoolic for life?
yes? if thats were your basing your judgement than again its a falacious one.

To Mahon to as you both brought up the same point...

No, but if I know someone is a drunk and I then see him staggering down the street and throwing up my first thought is that he's drunk. He 'could' be ill, but the likelihood of me being correct is rather high.

Much the same, when someone admits to pirating a bald male head, has never shown a sculpt of a bald male head before that point and then continues to churn out either the same or 'very' similar bald male heads on almost every miniature he shows I'm going to assume he's still pirating. He 'could' have somehow learned to sculpt bald male heads and just never shown any kind of learning process or any other type of head but similarly to the above the likelhood of me being correct is rather high.

I can only assume people keep 'picking on him' because they are also of the opinion that he is copying other people's work.

another quick negative conclusion based on... what?
people are sure very interested on negativity.

When you work within this industry and your livelihood depends on it then yes people are quick to make sure they spot those who would rob others. Many of the people saying these things are sculptors themselves and are interested in making sure that their own work isn't going to be copied next.

I've asked to see some original stuff so if you could link to it I'd be more than happy to take a look?

look a bit up theres a quick example

The miniatures in this thread are the ones that prompted my initial reply. That same bald male head is there in the servant and the dwarf and the bases. There are also other dubious parts. I focus on the head because it's the one part that has been admitted to.

dont get me wrong ok? im not claiming your conclusions are false im claiming untill someones actually seen the facts all conclusions are false since only a part of truth its a lie

so since no one actually knows better concentrate on positive part of life dont you agree?

I'm afraid I don't agree no. I make my living from this industry and even a hint of piracy is bad for all people who do. If Scibor turns out to be an amazing sculptor who just for some reason hasnt shown us anything other than these bald head clone people then good on him and I wish him all the best. I highly recommend he does so soon though before the name sticks or GWs legal department come a knocking.

[NAVARRO]

.....drunk debate...
- the way you take conclusions based on what you see is what makes you as an individual, thats why we are all diferent, just dont forget that "your conclusions" might not be totaly correct and theres always something we didnt catch right (that i garantee you)

.....negativity debate..

since you are and live from the industry how could you not see scibors works everywere?... im not talking about his commissions im talking all those sculpts he keeps showing everywere ( mind im not a particular scibor fanboy and dont have links to his works but if my mind doesnt fail me wasnt something of his on a old white dwarf? might be wrong there)

but man and those ogres orc and boar and.... up there, are copies also? of what? those are not bald heads are they? or they are also dubious

sculptors are very worried??? well all i can say is dont for paranoia behaviours we already have GW maybe if they concentrate more on sculpting perhaps we would have the pleasure to see more inspiring sculpts...

but hey im taking your word on this because thats what i do, i dont have reasons to think otherwise or that you have hidden agenda because you live from this industry see what i mean?

.....concentrate on positive part of life dont you agree? debate.....

your answer is no? well not much i can add here then

[endrem]

I understand you make your living from this industry, means you are probably more sensitive on this topic than others. The fact that he said once he copied a head doesn't automatically mean that he does it again. He might have taken a sample and based on that learned how to make a bald head on his own.

If he was copying whole figures and tried to sell them, I would say this whole conversation is justified, but so far I can see, we are just guessing on similarities and old forum entries. The real problem is that you'll have hard time catching those who really copy figures and sell them for half price, but that's another topic.

[Artemis]

I understand you make your living from this industry, means you are probably more sensitive on this topic than others. The fact that he said once he copied a head doesn't automatically mean that he does it again. He might have taken a sample and based on that learned how to make a bald head on his own.

If he was copying whole figures and tried to sell them, I would say this whole conversation is justified, but so far I can see, we are just guessing on similarities and old forum entries. The real problem is that you'll have hard time catching those who really copy figures and sell them for half price, but that's another topic.

https://www.coolminiornot.com/112537

Read No.3 it clearly states he's pirating that head.

A short while later, after numerous people had pointed out how illegal it was he uploaded...

https://www.coolminiornot.com/113322

And now number 3 reads 'Head is my own sculpture' when it's the 'exact' same head. That's not someone learning to sculpt perfect GW heads in one week, that's someone lying.

At no point have I seen any learning process sculpts. Since that moment above all his 'bald head' miniatures have had either the exact same head or what is quite clearly a copy of that head that's been slightly messed with, by either dragging one side of the face down, opening the mouth, sticking on some hair and so on.

Does anyone have any links to either a human male or a dwarf male by Scibor who doesn't have this head? Not an Ogre or some other large miniature.