scibor & stamp/relief-ing

How to convert or sculpt a miniature? How to make a decent base or even a full diorama?!
Nameless
The Better Choice
The Better Choice
Posts: 17415
Joined: 21 Jun 2005, o 17:41
Location: Silesia, Poland
Contact:

Post by Nameless »

degra wrote: but the prices for his conversions are really exagerated and i can´t understand it. anyway it´s sad that he doesn´t respond to answers in forums and just uses as an advertisement for his business......
Why should he lower his prices, when he can find clients willing to buy his work so easily?
I can also understand, that he doesn't want to share his recipes. I don't like it just as you, but - it is his right to have some secrets.
What I don't understand is that he is not responding to my business offer (he was looking for a distributor of his products). I've tried in few different ways. Scibor, if you are reading this, please e-mail or PM me :)

Back to the topic. Edgar, if you know french, could you translate that tutorial for us? I suppose that would solve all our problems with "stamping".
degra

Post by degra »

Why should he lower his prices, when he can find clients willing to buy his work so easily?
I can also understand, that he doesn't want to share his recipes. I don't like it just as you, but - it is his right to have some secrets.
i didn´t mean that he should lower his prices, but he should be honest and say how he has done his work, as too many people think he had sculpted it.
i mean, that if he wouldn´t cast the parts for his conversions in green stuff, no one would pay that much money for a simple conversion, which has a very low quality in technic. - ok i have to admit that he had a great feeling for a certain style and people who are more into gaming love his work as he puts some nice adding into GW´s products. but all those are thinking that he is sculpting it.
i hope you know the difference between sculpting and stamping/moulding... - it ´s like an printed out "freehand" on a cape or an standart - that kind of stuff hasn´t much value, or? :twisted: :wink: :lol: i mean..just think about someone selling a mini with some basic paintjob, but with a exquisite freehand on his shield.... - and the seller doesn´t tell you that it is printed out........

anyway - scibor has a good sence for marketing and buisness which nearly no freelance sculptor has. - if it would be so, people would know that for the money they pay for an simple scibor conversion, they would get an entirely sculpted miniature of very very good quality - which is after all an unique piece of work..... :wink:

ok so back to topic: i hope to have some time to make a rough tutorial on how to make your masters, so you can stamp them. - it will take a while, as i already promised to other people of making tutos about face sculpting and so on, but there are already some good tutos on the net, so i will look for this stamping :wink:

ok then - bye
edgar
NAVARRO
Mr. Bug-Man
Posts: 2747
Joined: 17 May 2005, o 09:18
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Post by NAVARRO »

overpriced? dunno if scibor stuff is overpriced or if other freelancers sculpts are "downpriced" if we pay so much for a unoriginal plastic or metal casted miniature.
:roll:

really i cant see this like a profitable business... i have the idea its more like miniature entusiasts that sculpt some stuff in freetimes and get little money for it... but i could be wrong.

well i dont call selling stamps for sculpts like "good sence for marketing and buisnes " at least that in my book is very short sighted for a business... you can fool someone for limited time but not everyone forever... long therm reputation is what good business aims for.

I for one like scibor stuff he has talent and found a way reproducing his stuff faster(stamps), i can see that more like aiming at mass production rather than art production but hey everyone has its priorities.
Image
Image
degra

Post by degra »

overpriced? dunno if scibor stuff is overpriced or if other freelancers sculpts are "downpriced" if we pay so much for a unoriginal plastic or metal casted miniature.
what do you mean with "unoriginal": uncreative or mass product?

it´s true that freelancer sculpts (greens) are not well priced, thats why i have to admit that i´m personally a little bit jealous on scibor hahaha- no really, don´t take it to serious, the point is that he doesn´t talk about how he do, and that is what i call good advertisment - i mean for someone who seems to make it as a freetime hobby - peolpe are talking about him and his mysterious little secret :wink:

anyway - this discussion is about something that isn´t really up to date anymore - he started to sculpt his first minis, and that is really great and i´m looking forward to see more from him, as he is really productive (even if it´s more for mass production...oh every gamer will hate me :wink: , (by the way...i´m gaming too hahaha :lol: :lol: ))

bye
edgar
NAVARRO
Mr. Bug-Man
Posts: 2747
Joined: 17 May 2005, o 09:18
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Post by NAVARRO »

degra wrote: what do you mean with "unoriginal": uncreative or mass product?
mass product, tons of copies that everyone can have, not unique or original sculpt.

sure many people whant to know what object he uses to create those patterns but stamp is a stamp no secret about tecnique. if we look carefully for objects we all can find nice patterns for our stamps in our homes.

Personnaly i avoid any kind of stamp work, i just dont think i will learn nothing from it.... not my path. i aim to learn to sculpt and not cheat myself and others.

But my way of doing things is just that... my way...


If freelancers think the prices are low join efforts and raise the prices.


on a side note its more interesting learning from master sculpors like Pega than guessing what objects are used on scibor stamps. :)
Image
Image
degra

Post by degra »

i fully agree to your point of view navarro!

nice ending and conclusion of this little discussion:D

good night to all - especially to scibor who may have had a look on this topic hahaha :wink:
keep it up, i´m really looking forward to some new stuff from you!

bye
edgar
d0gfender

Post by d0gfender »

Well by the sound of it Navarro it seems that you think that I'm lazy and do not want to sculpt on my own. But if you want to sculpt the same intricate designs over and over again, after you found the right method then by all means try it. I do quite a bit of sculpting, but figuring out how to do something like that shouldn't be frowned upon in a sense that it's a lesser evil and it makes the 'sculptors' job easier. Well really thats the point, if I want to make all my units have a certain pattern, or symbol it would be a painstaking task to make all of them. Scibor isnt just rolling tubes of gs and pinching it.
NAVARRO
Mr. Bug-Man
Posts: 2747
Joined: 17 May 2005, o 09:18
Location: Portugal
Contact:

Post by NAVARRO »

d0gfender wrote:Well by the sound of it Navarro it seems that you think that I'm lazy and do not want to sculpt on my own. But if you want to sculpt the same intricate designs over and over again, after you found the right method then by all means try it. I do quite a bit of sculpting, but figuring out how to do something like that shouldn't be frowned upon in a sense that it's a lesser evil and it makes the 'sculptors' job easier. Well really thats the point, if I want to make all my units have a certain pattern, or symbol it would be a painstaking task to make all of them. Scibor isnt just rolling tubes of gs and pinching it.
Your jumping your conclusions man read thread more carefully :)

well i said it before and will say it again in this thread

"Although i must say i respect everyone's decisions and for me is much more fun to find and search for new tecniques."

whats fun and practical for me doesnt mean it applies to everyone, and i dont think who uses stamps is lazy. but you might understand theres a big diference between one symbol here and there and lots of same patterns all over minis, over and over again.

Do your thing man like i do mine no one is calling you nothing or making judgments.

as for

"Scibor isnt just rolling tubes of gs and pinching it."

if thats for me its unfair, i always stand by for talented or untalented sculptors, they are so few... and if you read my opinions about his work, even on this thread, you will see i consider him very, very talented :|

Making lots of stamps for faster results to make a profit has nothing to do with talent debate. Not sharing tips and tecniques has nothing to do with talent debate and using forums just for publicity has nothing to do with talent debate.

honestly i have my own goals and they dont have nothing to do with you or scibor or anyone who thinks my way of thinking or do things is incorrect and viceversa. in other words do whatever you want to achieve your own goals, just dont forget to have fun in the process. :wink:

You lazy stamper :lol: :lol: kidding ok?
Image
Image
mahon
Super Villain
Super Villain
Posts: 23961
Joined: 31 Mar 2005, o 23:36
Location: Poznan, Poland
Contact:

Post by mahon »

ok - if you wish to continue this discussion, please be cautious and avoid any flaming or attacking...

as for now, I think that what was said was:
- stamping is useful for repeating patterns
- but is not as "arty" as sculpting, neither as difficult, and won't teach you how to sculpt
- but is OK as long as you don't pretend it's sculpted but only copied.

To me Scibor's stamping is OK as long as he doesn't pretend he did sculpt the "copies" in dividually. I never saw him pretending he did... To me original sculpts are more valuable but if stamping can achieve the wanted effect, why should one take the more difficult way?
What only bothers me is the fact that many works lack the neatness of single works presented by people like eg. Pega, or Navarro. These minis just look like individual pieces, created individually with all the care. Some of the conversions presented lack filling the gaps, sanding edges, etc.

As for stamping itself - if you created the stamp yourself, it's even better than if you're stamping an object you have but didn't create...


EDIT: One person asked me in a PM if there was something wrong in their post. Nope, everything's OK. But I wanted us all to remember that something like that can happen, I am cautious because we're from different countries and cultures, and one can feel attacked - even if it's on ly a language problem, or - as it was nicely called - a 'language gap'.

Everything's OK - have fun! Just remember that we're here for fun and something you say CAN be misunderstood...
-- Mahoń

Image

Back in the garage with my bullshit detector
Skrit
Needs more explanation
Needs more explanation
Posts: 10608
Joined: 9 May 2005, o 15:34
Location: The Netherlands, Breda

Post by Skrit »

A heated debate every now and then is oke as long as it doesn't get personal. I too think that it was more the language gap here, but both dOgfender and Navarro have explained their points/views well I believe.

Mahon's stepping in was more to 'prevent' than to 'moderate'.

The moral of the story is: Scibor, just share your techniques!:P
Post Reply