Kingdom Death

[Nameless]

muahahahhahahahahaha

speaking more seriously, I know Adam (guy behind the KD) a bit, he helped with one issue. he's a nice chap, so I wish him all the best with his line. I'm sure this one will sell well, even if I find this mini... weird

[mahon]

that is sure - no matter what we say, it will say well. and that's a good thing.

[NAVARRO]

that is sure - no matter what we say, it will say well. and that's a good thing.

Good thing? why? Porn sells well but do we need porn in wargamming? I know I dont.

[mahon]

because variation is always a good thing. the more miniatures available - the better for the hobby.
you won't buy it - others will, and any company being able to break out from the GW cliches is a good thing.

you don't like it - you don't buy it. but that's just another option available. the more options - the better.

[NAVARRO]

Yeah I would agree with that if I considered these anything related to my hobby wich I dont, see my point?

[mahon]

see, but I treat the hobby as a bit wider thing than only the stuff which interests me directly.
i don't like many releases from many companies, but I still consider them a good thing for the hobby in its wider aspect.

[NAVARRO]

Well for me this hobby is really not that wide to be honest, probably thats why they called it a niche market... it has very clear limits and boundries that started with the little lead toy soldiers. I dont even consider this hobby art and rather a craft so yeah its a really Limited craft.
In short I dont agree with your stance of claiming this will be a positive thing for our hobby... Rape is a big no no in my book and porn is not a proper thing to put in a wargamming table since to me its not a wargamming orientated item... you consider this diversity I dont sorry.

If it sells loads will only estimulate the investment on this kind of crap and its very bad in my prespective why? because it adds negativity to our activity but whats worse for me is that the talent of our few sculptors is wasted on these projects.

[mahon]

Well, I respect your opinion and appreciate it. In fact the best discussions are when opinions differ - I hope you agree with me here
Without people who have different opinions this forum would turn into a lot of posts saying "seconded" or "what he said". I am glad it's not the case.

I agree that such sculpts may generate some more negative opinions about wargaming. BTW I am curious if you don't like HR Giger's works. There are really many things in bad taste in his works, yet I admire them.

For me large scale models are something I will most likely never paint. But I enjoy watching them and consider them a part of a "miniature painting hobby" which kinda intersects with wargaming in its way.

[NAVARRO]

Sure I do its always good to have a good discussion mate.

Giger... see glad you mentioned it... there a place and a time for everything its called context... Giger is a fine artist produces pure art ( also other things but lets concentrate on topic)... this is a big part of the context not only that but the time it was done and his goals and targets as a artist, he developed a language that makes sense in fine arts...remember telling you miniature making is not art but craft? Art is as WIDE as it can get and there pretty much everything goes as for a craft is not the case... craft doesnt express an ideal and is pretty much a competent execution of something. ( simplified defenition XD)

Making miniatures for painters and gamers is diferent from making fine arts man! very diferent!... I love giger for what he did, he broke some tabus but that was his point...

To make my point clearer to you, I ask you why dont you allow pornography in this forum? Dont answer its the exact same reason I dont accept this In my wargammes.

[mahon]

these are good points, man. and some are hard to disagree with.
why we don't allow pornography here? well, we don't want to run into any legal problems, do we?

and you may be right that mini-making may be craft not art. but examples of some dioramas and miniatures I've seen recently are making me wonder if miniature painting doesn't happen to become art sometimes now. not that I suggest that any of us brings mini-painting to the level of another fine art. just seen some works which clearly match what I feel to be art. not because of quality but because of the concept, unique style, personal approach, and probably purpose. never sure about it, but it's just more of a gut feeling about it.
I believe you may be much more knowledgeable about it than me.