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Golden Demon UK 2011

Golden Demons and all the other miniature painting competitions and events

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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby NAVARRO » 26 Sep 2011, o 17:40

atacam wrote:What I am saying, in a light hearted way as to not offend too much, is that you are on the whole very negative about a lot of peoples work. I for one saw the minis and came away feeling very inspired. I agree the pictures don't do some of the people minis justice, but to say that the originality is uninspiring is, I think unfair. Remember this is a painting competition not a how can you convert the mini so it is nothing like the original. I think what would be better is yes say you find them uninspiring, but then state why, and maybe what could be done to rectify this. It turns your comments from being critical to being constructive. I would imagine people would appreciate it...I would.


Oh boy oh boy I expected more from you Atacam... I mean we both go way back and I always imagined that you considered unbiased and not sugar coated personal opinions just that! Neither positive or negative just that, opinions! You can either be humble and assimilate or arrogant and ignore or neither and enjoy your hobby :) ... Just not long ago on your last paintings post I took the extra time to give you suggestions etc... because you know it was one mini and one painting and I was talking to you directly.
But how realistic is to ask anyone to comment every entry at this GD and explain what I feel its uninspired? Thats sorry to say kind of ridiculous... and by not making that I'm not constructive and rather negative towards people works? Hyperbole much? :lol:

I commented this GD based on crappy pics a ton of miniatures and most of those concepts I feel that are unoriginal/ uninspired and guess what if you consider that negative then its OK... next time I think on commenting your paintings I guess I need to take a step back because you seem to be deliberately missing the point and inserting strange judgements on the equation.

As for this is not a conversion contest... sorry I didn't say that either but if your going to paint or convert or scrathbuilt or make a diorama whatever you better have some creativity and originality because in errr painting comps of fantasy universes that really makes a BIG difference... wonder why GD france is acclaimed as the best?
You can have a stock miniature with no convo painted in a very original way and to think that originality only happens when you convert something is missing a considerable part of what creative painting can achieve.

Again and since I know you online for many years I have to say Its rather disappointing the way you addressed this...
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby Nameless » 26 Sep 2011, o 18:15

Moderator says:
Guys, feel free to discuss, just try not to increase temperature any more, ok?
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby atacam » 26 Sep 2011, o 18:18

I'll keep this short. Maybe I missed the point of your post, but I think you left it a bit ambiguous. I think originality is hard to get in such a limited competition, without painting the latest never seen before release. I mean no matter what you do with it a space marine is still a space marine, nothing original there. ;)

I disagree on the France being the best, I think that crown goes to Spain.

I am not deliberately missing the point, I'm just not sure what your getting at, which is why I posted as I did. I mean your very first sentence, in your response comes across as condescending, but being that this is internet and languages can be a barrier I am willing to bet it wasn't meant like that, believe me if I tried to type in Portuguese we would really fall out. ;)
Last edited by atacam on 26 Sep 2011, o 18:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby atacam » 26 Sep 2011, o 18:19

Nameless wrote:Guys, feel free to discuss, just try not to increase temperature any more, ok?
Thank you.
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Noted.
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby Hellspawn » 26 Sep 2011, o 18:30

Not putting oil on fire here (well at least not trying to :mrgreen: ), but I'm quite agreeing with Navarro here on the fact that GW pics for those kinds of events are usually and often poop pictures that doesn't properlly show people's works compared to the one the peeps who won awards are putting on their blogs or on CMON website.
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby atacam » 26 Sep 2011, o 18:57

Hellspawn wrote:Not putting oil on fire here (well at least not trying to :mrgreen: ), but I'm quite agreeing with Navarro here on the fact that GW pics for those kinds of events are usually and often poop pictures that doesn't properlly show people's works compared to the one the peeps who won awards are putting on their blogs or on CMON website.



That bit i am most definitely agreeing with. Although...They still have probably done a better job with my Skaven than I will. :D
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby NAVARRO » 26 Sep 2011, o 19:08

NAVARRO wrote:Pictures probably don't do any of those minis justice, but from what I see and not commenting on the painting and just the originality of the entries I find most uninspiring...


I read my post several more times and need to quote it... I still don't see any ambiguity, no condescendence I'm just saying the originality is uninspiring its a totally amoral personal opinion... so can we stop giving me adjectives and digging for something else besides what's written?

Nameless you know me I dislike blurred waters if someone has something to say just say so... You can call me anything I don't mind and sometimes even negative towards something but in this particular case? and hinting that Im always discouraging fellow hobby friends? If someone want's to go that route, and atacam clearly did, he better have a good reason for that...
The only reason he called on this to justify his judgements towards me is that I should comment the GD giving suggestions on what to improve on all the minis I consider uninspiring... and that makes NO sense.
Makes no sense because there's tons of minis there to comment, the painters are not here to read it and the minis pics are very poor...
Want me to comment your mini atacam? Post it on forum and I will like I always do when I can.


I'm not offended or trying to offend just wanting to find out what made someone like atacam that I always cherished make such accusations.

My temperature never raised just want to see all fog dissipated.

atacam wrote:I'll keep this short. Maybe I missed the point of your post, but I think you left it a bit ambiguous. I think originality is hard to get in such a limited competition, without painting the latest never seen before release. I mean no matter what you do with it a space marine is still a space marine, nothing original there. ;)


You can paint a stock spacemarine in new original ways, the miniature itself is not the beginning and end of it all... remember when battledamage was introduced for the first time? remember when someone painted camo on SM, remember the first time you saw OSL on a SM and the list goes on and on... So again you can Paint things with originality or not, the mini subject does help but its not the one and only factor.

atacam wrote:I
I am not deliberately missing the point, I'm just not sure what your getting at, which is why I posted as I did. I mean your very first sentence, in your response comes across as condescending, but being that this is internet and languages can be a barrier I am willing to bet it wasn't meant like that, believe me if I tried to type in Portuguese we would really fall out. ;)


Entries look uninspired and lack originality... was the only point and my honest opinion that I could see from the bad pics...

So even if according to you atacam based on my quoted paragraph I'm negative, ambiguous, condescending I can tell you that I'm all that and much more sometimes... but in this case your miles off :D :D
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby arctica » 27 Sep 2011, o 08:56

Actually I have to agree with Nav here, my friend showed me the photos on the GW site last night and I was massively unimpressed with the entries in general. There were a couple I really liked but generally speaking i felt there was very little outstanding in terms of originality or even just anything which just pops out. This could be because of the photos but generally speaking even with poor photos not much popped out in my eyes. I'm not saying the painting isn't good I just think that the entries were just quite plain.
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby Pandadosmares » 27 Sep 2011, o 10:19

Has always i look forward for the pictures of the GD's and this year i was again disapointed, first with the US and now with the UK (thanks for the others :clap:) this may sound a bit hard but it isnt its just a fact for me, a great paint job dosent make a work inspiring but just a well done work, i find disapointing when a someone puts lots of work in something just to do it well and forgets to go above that, i do it sometimes for lots of reasons but in a competition like that for me you cant just paint a mini like the original and like all the others after that, where is your identity has a painter? wheres your art? a low quality paint job can be inspiring even if in your eyes it dosent have the best transitions and the list goes on, inspiration for me comes when something makes you watch that thing over and over giving you ideas making you dream, and those didnt.
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Re: Golden Demon UK 2011

Postby mahon » 27 Sep 2011, o 12:23

point 1:
GW pics usually don't do justice to GD entries, so we have no bias in any case. we always get to see bad photos, and so they're comparable.

point 2:
it's not a conversion contest, but a miniature painting contest. sure, but it's not only about perfect technique: thin lines and smooth blendings. it's about the impression you can make with your model. you have to make the judges' jaw drops and breaths stop in their chests.

point 3.
conversions are allowed. every means allowed by the rules can be used to make your work more impressive.

point 4.
compare this gallery with galleries of other contests - Germany, France, Spain. no offense here, but the general level of creativity and inspiration in these miniatures is lower. even if we assume quality was comparable (tough to judge with the photos we get to see), these entries don't impress me half as much as some other GDs did.

point 5.
I feel some marketing guys messing with the tendencies and trends. remember the long streaks of trophies won by giants? remember the joke about entries having to scream 'warhammer'? can't see how they seem to favor new releases?

my take:
I can't say much about quality of painting here. most likely none of us can do it without seeing the entries live. but we've seen some totally jawdropping entries in person at various contests already. they were full of inspiration and creative ideas. they just kept you gazing and staring at them in surprise and awe. I see some difference in quality in this respect here.
Maybe my expectations go further than choosing the smoothest paintjob - take some airbrushing and a few glazes and you get a nearly perfect blend. I want these entries to move something inside me. That's why some guys spend hundreds if not thousands of hours to make their works small (or even large) works of art. Maybe I expect more than just choosing a miniature which will look nice in the next White Dwarf, with subtitle 'these examples of excellent Games Workshop miniatures were painted by people who used Games Worksop's paints and brushes'. To me a painting contest will always be a creative event.

I don't think Nav overreacted here or was offensive at anybody. To most of us the contest seems less impressive than some others and we are entitled to have our own opinions. We have no reason to be biased, and I think at least some of us know what we're talking about. I've seen quite many contest winning entries, and even had quite a few in my hands, so I can say I am familiar with the subject.

Sorry if you feel discouraged, or your work not appreciated enough - nobody was talking about your entry in particular, or so I think. We were talking about the general trend and overall quality.
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